my thoughts on whatever I may be thinking about and choosing to share
discussion moved from "I won't use Impulse"
Published on September 24, 2008 By warreni In Personal Computing

Coelacanth said on September 23:

[quote]
Quoting warreni,
.
This is just being melodramatic; of course you can give it to a friend. He won't be able to get updates, but so what? It's a perfectly functional piece of software. Unlike many games rushed to market today, patches are not required to make it playable. As has been pointed out before, you paid for what was in the box when you bought it. You're getting the updates, in effect, for free. Now, people reasonably expect bugs to be fixed and balance to be tweaked when they purchase a game. However, when you give your copy to a friend, your friend isn't paying Stardock for the man-hours or IP assets involved in updating the product.

 


I've seen this argument a few times now and I disagree with it. Why shouldn't you be able to sell that piece of software to someone else and have the serial key (and thus access to the updates) go with it? At that point, it's off your system. And what difference does it make if someone else gets the updates? It's no different than if you kept the game and updated it yourself. I fail to see the logic of that argument about the man hours or the IP assets. This is really the only thing that currently bothers me about Stardock's business model.

 

 

 

 

I moved this from the original topic as the moderators are clearly tired of that discussion and I expect it will be locked soon.

Coelacanth, the problem with your argument is that the EULA for most software these days specifically prohibits the resale or transfer of the software license by the original purchaser. The rationale for this is that the company distributing the product only makes money on it once: when the original sale is conducted; why should the company subsidize your efforts to make a few bucks back by continuing to support the product for a third party?

 


Comments (Page 6)
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on Sep 27, 2008

Depends if updates are advertised on the product packaging.

on Sep 27, 2008

Let's go the other way (because I don't know the support structure).  How much are used PC games going for?  How much would the used PC game buyer pay to get the support?

The answer to the first question depends on how "new" and "hot" the game is. In the case of someone like myself, who always sells early in a game's life cycle because if I like a game I keep it, usually in the ball park of 75%. PC game values drop faster than those of any other game types, and after a few years you're usually looking at 10% of initial value or so. I'm not sure what most people would pay for support, but I'm guessing very little. $5, perhaps, but that'd come straight out of the resale value of the game. Let's face it, for most games (Stardock obviously excluded) the support provided isn't worth much.

Your contention isn't that the software company make any money on the resale but that they increase initial sales because the inital buyer knows that they can dump it with good concience or that there will be a market for the used game and they'll be able to dump it at all?

That's the thought, yeah. I know it's true of me, whether it's true of enough people to make the whole thing work for the publisher I'm not certain, but I think it'd be interesting to find out.

on Sep 27, 2008

but I think it'd be interesting to find out.
Agreed.

 

on Sep 27, 2008

Expenditure is a zero sum game, more money wont fall from the sky.  That lack of a used market will directly translate to a drop in discretionary spending that matches the income going towards used goods.  It may not be a 1/1 ratio on pc game sales, but it's close enough that you're going to take a hit if you kill it off.

on Sep 27, 2008

Any or all of you feel free to open a Google search for "define: greed"

 

kthxbye

on Sep 27, 2008

Any or all of you feel free to open a Google search for "define: greed"
Profit != greed

on Sep 27, 2008

Not by definition no, but there comes a point, would you not agree, where the line certainly blurs? Can you _have_ greed without profit?

on Sep 27, 2008

would you not agree, where the line certainly blurs?
Sure there's a point.  But that point is for the market to decide and I don't think this discussion is anywhere near that.

on Sep 27, 2008

Any or all of you feel free to open a Google search for "define: greed"

I would never, ever, use Google as a dictionary. I usually use dictionary.com because it always includes definitions from real, respected dictionaries such as Webster's, Random House, or the American Heritage dictionary.

Can you _have_ greed without profit?

Sure you can. Greed is a desire for more than you deserve. It's a desire, an emotion.

You can be poor and be very greedy, or you can be rich and not be greedy at all. Greed is not a measure of how much you have; it's a measure of how much you desire.

American Heritage Dictionary - greed  

An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth: "Many . . . attach to competition the stigma of selfish greed" (Henry Fawcett).

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary

Greed

Greed, n. An eager desire or longing; greediness; as, a greed of gain.

 

on Sep 28, 2008

No, there shouldn't be a secondary market for software.

on Sep 28, 2008

No, there shouldn't be a secondary market for software.
because  . . . ?

on Sep 28, 2008

Campaigner
No, there shouldn't be a secondary market for software.

 

I strongly disagree. If the software costs a lot of money, the secondary market or the possibility to transfer the licence can be usefull. Hovewer if the price of the license does not exceeed let's say $50, it does not make any sense.

on Sep 28, 2008

Your contention isn't that the software company make any money on the resale but that they increase initial sales because the inital buyer knows that they can dump it with good concience or that there will be a market for the used game and they'll be able to dump it at all?

That's the thought, yeah. I know it's true of me, whether it's true of enough people to make the whole thing work for the publisher I'm not certain, but I think it'd be interesting to find out.

 

People buying games more because they know they can easily dump them early on results in a wash for the devs, at best. Bear in mind that the closer to retail value you're reselling a used copy for, the more likely the buyer would have bought a new copy were the used one not available. As a result, the increased sales to people who don't want to keep the game are likely entirely offset (or more) by the loss of sales to those people's copies when sold off shortly after release.

Personally, this is one of the biggest gripes I have against specialty stores that rely on used sales. Selling older or hard to find used games is not such a big deal; given the low prices or lack of retail availability, there's probably little loss there.

But when someone comes into the store and makes up their mind to buy a game new, then the clerk bribes them $5 off to give the store massive profits and the devs squat--that's the kind of behavior that pisses me off; the store is basically stealing that sale entirely for themselves.

on Sep 28, 2008

There's not a lot you can do about people being suckers.  Used game stores are like used car dealers, they're going to make the money off the transaction.  When the buyer is the one benefiting from the trade, you're losing very little, if anything.

on Sep 28, 2008

Do people really go for that? I know if I were only getting 5 bucks off, I'd just tell them "No, I'll pay the extra 5 bucks for the new unopened game, thanks".

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